Bob Marley im Interview mit dem High Times Magazine
High Times: Have you seen High Times magazine?
Bob Marley: Hard Times? Ooo-eee! Ooo-ee! High Times! Dis supposed to 'ave de bes' high in de worl'. High Times, only de bes'.
High Times: Some Thai weed?
Bob Marley: [Pause]
High Times: Do you think herb will be legalized?
Bob Marley: I don' know if dis government will, but I know Christ's government will.
High Times: What about the Jamaican government? Mr. Manley, the Prime Minister?
Bob Marley: Him? Legalize herb? Boy, I jus' don' know. It's kinda legalized already. Me don't t'ink is really him, y'know. The realization of de truth. I don't know if Michael Manley will be de one, or who, but y'know, everyt'ing will reveal right out to de flat truth.
High Times: Now when you go back to Jamaica as a big star, are you able to talk to different people and get some things done that you'd like to happen?
Bob Marley: Down dere? See, Jamaica jus' run outa politics today...ya can't have anything happening. But ya have people who do t'ings for ya, like ya brethren, y'know. But when ya talk about de people in power, ya haffa be a politics-man. Me don't deal wit' no politics-me deal wit' de truth.
High Times: Your audience here is mostly white. What do you think about that?
Bob Marley: Well, I hear dat we not gettin' through to black people. Well, me tell de R&B guy now, he must play dis record because I wan' get to de people. We're not talkin' about no make me no superstar. Don' ever make me no star. Me no wan' be no star. But in de meantime, every knee shall bow and every tounge confess. Dat mean, de guy dat make de record, play for de people. Don' put me in no bracket, y'know what I mean? So dat is wit' de D.J. Him mus' realized dis is reggae music. I mean, it's music.
High Times: Do you consider yourself an outlaw?
Bob Marley: Outlaw? No, no outlaw. Right in time.
High Times: You talk about dancing a lot in your songs. Do you see dancing as a form of communion with Jah?
Bob Marley: When ya dance, ya just are Jah. Ya mus' dance.
High Times: When was the first time you got high on herb?
Bob Marley: As a yout'. Was in de Sixties.
High Times: What was the best weed you ever smoked?
Bob Marley: One time I was in Jamaica, was doin' a show, an' a man come up to me, and he give me a spliff. Now, das de bes' herb I ever smoke. Yeah, man! Neva get an extra herb like dat again! No, no, no. Just like one tree in de earth, y'know?
High Times: Just one tree?
Bob Marley: Jus' one tree. Sometimes ya just find a tree. It lamb's bread.
High Times: What's lamb's bread?
Bob Marley: De ability what de herb 'ave ya call lamb's bread. Some a dem ya call Bethlehem's bread. Dat is when ya really get good herb, y'know what I mean?
High Times: Well, the Jamaican that's coming into the States now is not as good as it was.
Bob Marley: Ya don' get no good herb because too much sell in Jamaica. And ya find alla people who plant herb fertilize it, so nobody really take care of de herb like first time. Ya use fertilizer, it come quick. Dem fertilize it an' cut it before time.
High Times: Do you guys find it hard to get good herb?
Bob Marley: Me fin' it hard to get in England.
High Times: In England they always mix it with tobacco. It's really foul.
Bob Marley: Yeah, man. It's time to let de people get good herbs an' smoke. Government's a joke. All dey wan' is ya smoke cigarettes and cigar. Some cigar wickeder den herb. Yeah, man, ya can't smoke cigar. Smoke herb. Some big cigar me see man wit', God bless! Me tell him must smoke herb. Ya see, de people come together because is not de buildin', is not de buildin' me wanna see, me wanna see a nice level piece of green grass. Don' wanna haffa go in no elevator, gwan upstairs and talk wit' some people in a square place. Me wanna go out in a earth, man. Righteousness cover de earth like water cover de sea. Where I gwan is, me don' have time to be in building all de while, when de miracles happening all de while outside. For some time miracles happen outta de sky. Is good for ya to see it, y'know. Among some green trees, yes man! I mena, ya 'ave green trees in America.
High Times: Have you ever tried acid?
Bob Marley: Me hear 'bout people who do it. No, me meet people who do it, an' dem tell me. And when dem tell me, I travel to de same place. I mean, when a guy explain it an' ya listen, ya can go all de way up to de same place as him.
High Times: Who told you about it?
Bob Marley: Well, one mustn't call people names, y'know. What keepeth its mouth, keepeth its life.
High Times: Do you think herb takes you to the same place?
Bob Marley: I feel like ya 'ave thousands of different types of herb. If when ya plant it, if ya meditation not high, it don't come like de right type of herb.
High Times: It's very hard to find the right type of herb.
Bob Marley: Yeah, man.
High Times: One of the reasons we're into this is to try to find it.
Bob Marley: Well, ya see, dat herb, ya can't find dat herb.
High Times: Where is it?
Bob Marley: Y'know what happen to dat herb? I tell ya where dat herb go now. Just like ya 'ave some apple trees, an' dis year something happen to dat apple tree dere, an' dis year dat tree taste better den dat tree. Ya find dat a seed planted de right day, de right minute, den dere's tree, ya find it, nobody plant it. A seed show, an' it grow, an' ya start nurse it, an' it become the best tree. Well, ya can get plenty a dat-de best herb dere. Jus' one tree, sometime a guy have. Ya might pass bye an' get a spliff. Ya say, 'Where ya get dis?' Him say, 'Dis come from St. Ann.' So ya go down to St. Ann's an' ya don't find it again.
High Times: Your new album cover and the promotional sacks are burlap. Why?
Bob Marley: We call dis a crocus bag. It has roots material, sackcloth. Ya associate wit' de poor man. If ya see a man walkin' down de street wit' dis, y'know 'es really poor, 'es a sufferer.
High Times: Like sackcloth and ashes?
Bob Marley: Yeah, but ya see, de t'ing is, de first shall be de las' and de las first. Is jus' like de Rastaman. Like Christ. Why did de whole worl' crucify? Him find, say in dis time de Rastaman is de only truth. So even de crocus bag stand out!
High Times: So this is how you educate Americans?
Bob Marley: Yeah, man!
High Times: Who in Jamaica wants the American DEA down there?
Bob Marley: What is DEA?
High Times: The Drug Enforcement Administration, the top narcs in the U.S. They're the ones that donate the helicopters and defoliants and things to countries like Jamaica. They try to squash the grass-smuggling trade. They send field agents to Mexico, Colombia, and Jamaica. We've been told that there are quite a few agents down there going around with the Jamaican police. Do you have any opinion as to why they're doing it, or who in Jamaica wants them down there?
Bob Marley: Jamaica and America 'ave a deal. Ya mean, why would Jamaica invite a t'ing like dat? I tell ya, man, is in Jamaica interest. Same system, same people who control America. I don' know if is President Ford or whoever de president is. But what I know-de same force what control de system look de same in my eye. I t'ink de same force control Jamaica dat control all dem type a t'ings, y'know. I t'ink dem devil. For de devil 'ave a fight against de rights, y'know.
High Times: Manley is a socialist. Isn't he changing things?
Bob Marley: Manley supposed to be a socialist. See, I don't have nuttin' ta say 'bout Manley, Manley personal self, man to man. But me no unnerstan', me no educated to know about big words like democratic socialism. Do it, let me see it, don't tell me 'bout it. Live de life.
High Times: What about Seaga, the capitalist who's running against Manley?
Bob Marley: Ya 'ave two powers in Jamaica. One name Labor Party, an' one named PNP [People's National Party, Manley's ruling party]. An' every year now dis one [the PNP] win. Well now, I like to give de guy a chance, de one who win. I find it look like before him can get papers together, is votin' time again! So somebody set de trap fa dem, for before him can really check out Jamaica, an' find out how much Jamaica owe America or Jamaica owe Canada. I mean, what is de backside doin'?
High Times: Didn't Manley use a reggae song for his campaign?
Bob Marley: Yeah, 'Better Must Come.' One t'ing is, ya can't blame Michael Manley, ya can't blame dem guys. Da t'ing is, de system set dat dey maintain de power.
High Times: Who sets the system?
Bob Marley: De system been set! Manley come, comes ta someone. Dat someone, dere was someone before dat, someone comin' from where it was comin' from in England. It comin' down from England now. I don't know how financial dem set up, how much money Jamaica borrow from England, or what kinda plan Jamaica an' England 'ave, but I know Jamaica owe money to certain people. And if de politician run for politics an jus' wanna run for politics and don't unnerstand de runnings a all de t'ings a' gonna face him, den he gonna run away from de system, an' if ya run from de system, de people kill you! Y'unnerstan'?
Dat is when ya dare to go up 'gainst God, fight 'gainst God. If ya come to do somet'ing, ya do it. But if ya come to do something an' ya don't do it, ya fighting 'gainst God. An' all de people ya trick all de while. So where's de system settin' from? I don't know de business deal dem have, but dey can't just look upon Jamaica an' say, 'All rights Jamaica, we give ya some a dis an' some a dat. All right Jamaica, we're withdrawin' from ya,' or whatever. Because either you swing wit' capitalism, or ya go wit de other 'ism'-socialism. Tell 'em 'bout some more 'isms'. Se, ya govern by dis 'ism' or dat 'ism'. We gotta trim it in right dere; no middle way. Even if ya go upon dis 'ism,' him don' wanna lose friendship wit' America. Let me tell ya something-de same situation dat put de people in gonna catch 'em. Devil trick devil. I find now people want Africa. But if America help Africa, I don' even want dat neither. But what de people want is Africa.
High Times: They want to go back?
Bob Marley: Forward. Yeah, man. I mean, we love Jamaica, an' we love de earth. But dere's a part a de eart' where it need plenty help-Africa.
High Times: Would you be willing to get a big boat and take people back and forth?
Bob Marley: No, dat is not de t'ing. Dat is not de t'ing. Y'see, when Marcus Garvey come, he have de Blackstar Liner. Dat is not de problem. De problem is, ya gotta get de people's heads togetha. Why ya go to Africa? No sinner shall enter dere. Dat's why Africa become a place dat ya don' want to be like 'ere. Me don' wanna talk 'bout Africa too much, but I love to talk 'bout Africa. Yeah, because Africa is my land. Just like de Englishmen 'ave England an' de Indians 'ave India. Africa! [Bob points to himself.] It should be a t'ing where everybody help me go home, because dem supposed to be my brother. 'But until dat day when de African continent will know peace...' I don' unnerstan' why when people talk about Africa dey wanna push Africa to one side. Now we know dat as de children of God, not as de children of America or as de children of Jamaica, but as de children of God, we know dat Africa need help. Poverty, y'know, it's not dat. De type a help Africa need is unity. Any time ya say Africa, is unity. If ya can't cite Africa, ya still in Babylon. Don' care who-anytime ya cite Africa, ya in unity. Until dat day, no have no peace Rasta! Yeah. But y'know when people talk 'bout Africa, dey talk like ya can't go dere, is a jungle, y'know what I mean? Yeah.
High Times: Have you been to Africa?
Bob Marley: I'm going dere, yeah.
High Times: Soon?
Bob Marley: Yeah, man. Africa teach all over de earth. Civilization, everywhere, every corner of de earth is African civilization. Now, a man hafta know himself. Ya can't tell me he's American or he's Jamaican or whatever he is. We know Noah had three sons. De las' destruction t'ing, three sons him have: Ham, Shem and Japhet. De three brothers, three colors. Dat mean, I don't know if I can tell a white man him come, say, live in Africa. My duty is to talk to de people who want to hear, who listen. If dey ask me a question, dey want to learn an' I 'ave somet'ing I can tell, den Jah will give me de inspiration to answer it. De whole earth start in Africa, de whole creation. But yet de people today come say, 'Boy, de people dem starve in Africa.' Money control whole lotta t'ings. But y'know, dem t'ings jus' reveal demselves out to de youth. Because if I don' unnerstand, my son will because de truth is always dere. Den ya realize dere's somet'ing going on about de place. Go up in a White House, go check it out an' find out de president don' even know. Go check it again. Maybe it end up inna other room. Maybe some big Catholic guy control. Ya don' know where it end up, y'know.
High Times: Huh?
Bob Marley: Ya don't know. [He laughs.] It might end up here, y'unnerstan? Yeah? So, ya have to be careful-de whole t'ing is truth.
High Times: What was that?
Bob Marley: Be careful, y'know?
High Times: Be careful? Yeah.
Bob Marley: Whole t'ing is truth.
High Times: Amen.
Bob Marley im Interview für das Rock & Folk Magazin, 1978 in Paris
Rock & Folk: Don't you think the fact that you have spent a lot of time away from Jamaica has changed your music?
Bob Marley: We are the ones who play it. It's not Jamaica that plays music for us (he bursts out laughing)
RF: But you play for very different audiences, like the Paris one.
Bob: Yes but all these people want the music from Jamaica. Even in Paris we can't change the music we play. Do you see what I mean?
RF: What about the presence of Junior (Marvin, the Wailers' guitar player)? Didn't it stengthen the group?
Bob: Yes, Junior strengthened the group, Junior is easy...
RF: Do you mean as a man or as a musician?
Bob: Both. He is cool. We understand each other.
RF: Do you think the Wailers line-up won't change anymore?
Bob: Maybe that it will stay the same, maybe that it will change... I think any change will be additional.
RF: Horns?
Bob: (He suddenly laughs and gets excited) yeah mon! that's it!
RF: Would you like to have a horns rhythm section again, like in the days of ska?
Bob: Yeah! Yeah mon! That would be great. Like in the days of ska. At the time being, and since quite a long time, we have concentrated on the rhythm. But now that everyone feels they are at the place in the rhythm, we could use horns again... yeah.
RF: The way your records are produced is rather different from most of the Jamaican production. You have never really been into dub in particular.
Bob: Me? No, I have never really liked this dub stuff you know. Dub is something else. We couldn't follow the dub way because we prefer a music that is like a message, you know. But dub is nice. I only start enjoying it now.
RF: Why are you recording again old songs like Kaya?
Bob: Mhh, Kaya, that's a nice tune... the night we wrote it, Kaya, we were in a remote part of the countryside. It was raining during the night and we were in a very small house and... we didn't have herb. That's why we sang : "gotta have kaya now for the rain is falling...".
("kaya" is one of the many names jamaicans use for marijuana).
RF: When was it?
Bob: Around ... 1970. Yes, 1970.
RF: You have also recut much older songs, that date way back from the ska days such as One Love. How does it feel to do a rendition of a tune you wrote 10 or 15 years ago?
Bob: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. it's a matter
of vibrations. I couldn't even know for One Love. Musically, I had never felt it as good.
RF: What about the lyrics?
Bob: It's as if I understood them better now than the first time. The first time is raw inspiration. The second time is comprehension... songs evolve. I don't know how or why. There are songs I don't really understand until I see the reactions they lead to in the street. Someone else finds out their meaning, and I understand it in turn.
RF: Do you consider the Wailers as now being Bob Marley's band, or will the other members contribute in a more active way?
Bob: Everybody is writing songs. Junior is writing an album. Tyrone (Downie, the organ player) too...
RF: Yes, but would they compose for the Wailers?
Bob: Yes, if they want to. Everyone has to be free.
RF: But the band's line-up is different from the time when Bunny and Peter were part of the Wailers, isn't it?
Bob: Yeah mon, you can stay all your life in the same place you know. Even trees grow (laughter)
RF: Do you think you could work with them again one day?
Bob: Sure man, at any time...
RF: Have you seen Peter (Tosh) since the problems he has experienced in Jamaica (he was arrested and beaten by the police)?
Bob: Yes, it's allright, cool.
RF: What do you think when things like that happen?
Bob: What happened to Peter? I think it's nothing but ignorance... ignorance on the police side.
RF: You live again in Jamaica now, but you have been away for a long time (after the shooting by the end of 1976)...
Bob: Yes...
RF: For too long?
Bob: No, just the right time.
RF: The last time we met, you were about to go to Africa for the first time. Did you finally go there?
Bob: No, not yet. But this time I will go (laughter)! No, this time it's true... I want to go to Nigeria, to Ghana, and one or two other places.
RF: Here is again an old question: do you really think european
audiences understand all the rasta stuff?
Bob: I don't know if they understand, but they have pretty good reactions you know (he is laughing like a kid). That's a reality, not a joke or a dream. It may seem strange, but it's not as strange as a religion because rasta is a reality. It's difficult for people who have undergone and accepted brainwashing to understand what I and I, the rastas, say. We are going beyond what we have taught you (...) To be rasta is to live a life in which you are always happy. But rasta know
the whole world will fight them...
RF: The last time we met, you told me that if reggae singers now sing rasta songs, that's because everybody loves rastas.
Bob: Yes, but not EVERYbody. As far as I am concerned, the more people talk about it, the better it is... people know there is a lot of fights in the world, but they can't explain why. Everybody fights, but at the same time nobody wants to ackowledge any explanation. There is something bad in it, psychologically. If we fight, we should be able to explain why. Otherwise... (he has a little smile that concludes his speech)
RF: Do you think people who like your songs understand all of this in them?
Bob: Many people can appreciate what we are trying to say. I never give up believing in the people, because that's all we have you know... when I was born, I have been taught the same thing that everybody, until I found by myself that there was something else. It happens at a different time for each one of us.
RF: Do you think jamaican musicians who have been raised in London, like Steel Pulse, have a different approach of reggae?
Bob: They try... because reggae, out of any analysis or interview, is a feeling. And anybody has that feeling you know, that timing... that's reggae: a very special feeling and timing. All reggae musicians have it. It's something very deep. When we (the Wailers) started to record songs like Duppy Conqueror, we did it in a clean and professional way. The feeling is there, but is professional. It couldn't be accepted on the worldwide record market without becoming professional. One or two of us had to do it so that the world could appreciate it, do you see what I mean?
RF: Do you mean reggae musicians have become more professional?
Bob: Yes, they didn't have the choice.
RF: But didn't they lose something in that process?
Bob: I don't see what they have lost in it (laughter). But I can see what they have won!
(this interview was carried out by Hervé Muller for Rock and Folk)
Bob Marley im Interview mit Patrick Barrat, 1980 in Tuff Gong, Jamaica
Patrick Barrat: But everybody doesn't think the emperor of Ethiopia, Haile Selassie, was the incarnation of God.
Bob: It sounds strange to them, for people are programmed. But those who program the people are intelligent enough to know it's not strange.
PB: Does it disturb you if people say you are a prophet?
Bob: If people say that, it's a good news (he bursts out laughing).
PB: And the first Third-World superstar?
Bob: No, I don't agree. I don't have many words to talk about myself, but I am what I am, not what people want me to be. Those who say that are into politics. Pouah!
PB: When did you start feeling you were becoming popular?
Bob: Who? Me? ... I have always been as popular in Jamaica as I am now. It means that if I have five good friends, that's enough for me to feel popular.
PB: Are you often in a defensive position?
Bob: Well, yes. I don't want to hurt anybody but I don't want anyone to hurt me. I am brazen faced. Sometimes, people ask me questions that make me wonder if I am taken for a joke. All of this is not a joke, we have to suffer in life and opression is constantly there. Journalism is funny: when one doesn't agree with something, they talk rubbish (implicating little smile)
PB: Is it true that your first visit to the United States, in the early sixties, led you to the way of rasta?
Bob: I went to the United States. In front of all these buildings, I said to myself: "rasclaat". They showed me pictures and kept on telling me: "God is white". I said to myself: "What a damned place! The only thing I could be here is a slave." Those guys believe in money. On their dollars they wrote: "In God we trust". I had to choose between this white God and a black Jesus. I have chosen...
PB: What do you refuse in Babylon?
Bob: In everything there is good and bad, even in technology. And when the white man is in power, he doesn't want to acknowledge the black man is his brother. Men must learn to live together, in harmony with each other. All of what the white leaders did has been machine guns and bombs. So, we disqualify them as leaders, or they rather disqualify themselves because they ignore the right way. They still think they must kill to survive. The white man failed to rule the world. Now the black man's
time has come...
PB: On what is based the white man's failure to rule humanity?
Bob: The color of the skin doesn't matter. The problem is that the white people have set up a system that takes them over. The establishment is controlled by the white race. In every community, you can find people suffering, dying, and others taking advantage of it. That's called the "system".
PB: How could South Africa become independent like Zimbabwe, former Rhodesia?
Bob: We just hope the white people will get up and fight for the black people's rights, and won't let another war between races settle. All the satisfaction a white man can give to a black man now is to fight for the black man's rights. That will bring justice, love and peace on earth. Because if we ever have to fight against white people to liberate Africa, then when the war is over each white man will still be considered as a white man by black people.
There, in Zimbabwe, it's different... we have an impact on people we defend. There is a meaning to all of that. There, I was considered as someone who knows truths about african traditions, africanism and Ethiopia. In Zimbabwe, I saw an old map of the ancient Ethiopia continent that covered all Africa. It was beautiful. And I had never seen people dance like that! Nobody can dance reggae like Africans. Reggae is good for all the people, but it belongs to one country: Africa.
PB: What is the meaning of your fight for the black people? Will it eventually lead to african unity?
Bob: I just want the black conscience to unite all the black people because white men already have what they need. Africa is not built yet because it's not united. The time has come for unity. All these liberation movements in Africa show that all these brothers are aware of it now. With Jah Rastafari, that's the best thing that could happen to the black people.
PB: Are you talking to the Third World as a whole, or only to Africa?
Bob: That's not the way I see things. Humans have the right to eat and live correctly everywhere. Some work for that everyday. But there are still too many people in post-slavery who can't get out of it. Man can be so evil towards his brothers, it's frightening. But, for an unknown reason, the evil man rules.
PB: Isn't Africa a bit a dream for you?
Bob: No, no, it's a reality.
PB: Will you go and live there one day?
Bob: Yeah man. We will all live in Africa one day, for even France will be Africa.
PB: How come?
Bob: But of course, France will be Ethiopia! When the french were in Africa, they used to control some places and declared them french. The times will change and France will belong to Africa. The tables are turning, but this time, there won't be blood, people won't be forced. They will agree. Africa is the fruit basket of the earth. It will unite without opressing the people for God loves Africa.
PB: Do you regret that people in the west who appreciate you don't know what is the meaning of your music?
Bob: Yes, it's really too bad. To them, I say that Rastafari is God and that the Christ government will rule the earth. And the Christ is Rastafari. If you are a bit interested in this, one has to know the Christ came from Africa. God came out through Ethiopia, known as being Africa according to the tradition. Haile Selassie is african and ethiopian. He didn't come as a simple human being but as an example.
PB: Do you really believe in african unity?
Bob: I believe first in the african unity, but I also believe in the unity of all the people for Rastafari is unique. The whole black continent used to be called Ethiopia. But the white man has divided Africa. Everytime he took a piece of it, he called it Africa.
PB: Do you have the feeling this unity is taking shape right now?
Bob: It will take a long time. But with time, more and more people are concerned in their identity. Soon, the whole truth will be revealed.
PB: You seem to make a difference between talking "to" the people and talking "for" them?
Bob: That's true. I am a kind of lawyer. Someone explains him what the situation is, and then the lawyer goes to the court to talk in their name. We talk with the people but we also try to talk in their name. We want people to live well. We don't intend to promote "sufferation". Sufferation must end, so we must talk about it. But we also have to talk about what real life should be like: love, poetry, music...
PB: How to suppress racial barriers?
Bob: Men must learn to live together, in harmony with each other. To achieve this, everyone should be able to travel from times to times.
PB: Have you checked Islam?
Bob: All I know is that muslims are good. I can't really tell you more.
PB: What do you think about Asians?
Bob: As the white man didn't manage to rule the world, they will have to do it. If the Bible had revealed God was Chinese, the Chinese would live in Ethiopia today. He would have been crowned King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
PB: You sometimes talk about the Last Judgement. In your opinion, when will it happen?
Bob: The Last Judgement happens everyday. Many things will happen.
PB: What for instance?
Bob: The bomb for instance. The only way for man to last is to do nothing to destroy himself. "If you live by the weapons, you will die by the weapons".
PB: What do you fight then?
Bob: I don't have time to fight. If I fight, I hurt myself. I leave the judgement to God. The rocks in a river never prevented the water from flowing.
PB: What is the place you like the most on this earth?
Bob: Saint Ann, the village where I was born. In Europe, winter is too cold, summer is too hot, spring is too short and autumn is too short as well. Man can only live in a place where climate is like the one in Africa.
(Bob goes in the yard to play football. He keeps on talking about...music:)
Bob: I like to play music, but I don't feel comfortable on stage. I wish I could turn the show into a friends meeting. I would talk with the people, we would reason while playing a few songs. That's a nice situation when everyone is cool and chats.
PB: Does music only mean reggae?
Bob: I like and respect Stevie Wonder. Calypso is the first music I have ever liked, but I didn't know how to play it. How could music be perfect when it's played by a man? Music opens heaven's doors. It leads you to other dimensions, which many people don't understand.
PB: What about ganja, is it important?
Bob: Ganja develops your talents. Even scientists should smoke. It's good for meditation. It should be allowed anywhere in the world.
PB: Does this BMW, close to the mango tree, belong to you?
Bob: Of course. Bob Marley and the Wailers. You got it?
(A while later, in the recording studio, the interview resumes)
Bob: Right now, I can't imagine anything else. Some think reggae will soon run dry, but this music is a rasta music and therefore has no end... When Disco music appeared, people didn't understand reggae And disco worked, but people will come back to reggae. That's where the roots of music are...
PB: But what do you listen?
Bob: Listen, listen carefully (he listens very carefully, I do the same). Do you hear that? Now, that's night, that's really the music I listen to: crickets, frogs, the sounds of nature. If you go to the countryside with a tape recorder, you find the music of the hills. It's different from commercial music. Once you record, that's commerce, that's "bizniz". Music is the chant of the earth. If you listen to it, nature is music... and music is there for changes, it brings the strength of the rhythm to the people.
(A while later, during a rehearsal)
Bob: You see, sometimes I play guitar alone. The song comes and I turn it into reggae. Sometimes, the music and the lyrics come together. But you need a lot of concentration to write music.
PB: What about politics?
Bob: I am neither on the right side nor on the left side, I go straight ahead. Nobody thinks about going straight ahead. Do you understand? That's true. Do you remember when they crucified the Christ? There was someone on the left and someone on the right. They were both thieves! It's the same for ideologies.
PB: Your music is not political then?
Bob: People say my music is political, but I just tell the truth and what is right. No politician likes the people. They like those who vote for them, and hate those who vote against them. Politics is madness. And politicians think the Christ is dead because they are dead themselves. The Christ can't die, that's why we are alive.
PB: How do you spend your money?
Bob: I give it. I give it here and there, to hundreds of people who come here everyday to ask help. Money is the root of all evil. Money was created to keep people chained, it's a substitute of reality.
PB: You also have detractors.
Bob: They won't get me easily. They will have to try very hard. They say I betray my pople. No, no and no I stay true to the masses. Nobody can change it... my only vice is having many women.
PB: What about death?
Bob: We don't deal with death. All the meaning of rasta is in life. The gift of Jah is life. The path of sin is death. If man doesn't sin, well, we know miracles have happened to people and they still live. We know there are wonderful paths. We have a guardian angel that guides us. If you do something bad, then this spirit is vexed and you can die. Humans give importance to death because they don't understand God. They don't see Rastafari is God. They know nothing about the changes on this earth.
There is no end. There will be no end.
Bob Marley Interview mit Mumia Abu-Jamal, 1979
Mumia The significance of the herb, aka, the flower?
Bob Herb? herb is the healing of the nation, seen? Once you smoke herb, you all must think alike. Now if you thinking alike, dat mean we 'pon the same track. If we 'pon the same track, that mean we gonna unite. Some say 'don't smoke herb.' Dey don't want us to unite, right, so they say, 'don't smoke herb.' (laughter)...It's true! So you know, herb is the healing of the nation and people must get herb for dem use. Dem wanna smoke it, let 'em smoke it. Dem wanna boil it in tea, let 'em boil it in tea. If dem waan steam it, steam it, if dem gwanna eat a little, eat a little, but dem must det it! True true. Yea, mon, that is why I say, um, you have a lotta liquor store, and because dem know man must smoke, you have plenty cigarette, but dem no waan ya smoke herb, y'know? Because, as ya know, the alcohol kill ya, and herb build ya! Yea, herb make ya live. People I know smoke herb live the longest! Jah know! True, true! Herb smoker live the longest pon earth, mon -- true true! I know a man when I a likkle youth who smoke herb and I grown and see, him kyaan change, him is the same mon from ever since! (laughter)...Him a deal with Rasta, ya know? One named Robert. Never change. See him years, never change...It's Rasta ya know?
Mumia Brother, what's the significance of the song, Exodus?
Bob Exodus means coming together...the movement of Afrika, of Black people. Exodus from Babylon, we're in Babylon, and then a physical exodus to Home. But what we really a say is dat, we waan Black people to unite, with one another, Seen? Now, the only way we can unite is to deal wit truth...the truth is that King Solomon and King David is the root and if we gonna deal with roots, we hafta deal from King Solomon and King David time, Lion of Tribe of Judah, ya know? So, this is what I and I say: time for unity! Cause we's a people, we have something...and we have to deal with it, seen?
Mumia What kind of feeling do you get when you come through a city like Philadelphia, with almost a million Black people?
Bob When I come into this city here, in Philadelphia...sometime, I wonder if I am on time, ya understand? 'Cause the think is to be on time. When I come here I want, I really desire, fe really get thru to the people I don't wanna come here for joke! When I leave I wanna see people dreadlock, or say I'm Rasta, and get the thing rebellious, dat, we can't live, you know, we can't continue going thru this same thing, over, over and over again, when the problem is, our people must be united. And then all problem solve, and then every problem solve. 'Cause if the Black man check it him have the knowledge, wisdom and understanding enuff to do it. Seen? While the next one get the gift of technology, and the next one get the gift of dis and dat, Black man get the rootical gift him maintain the God business, dat purpose why earth was created. I and I have to maintain dat...
Mumia One of the songs that you do, brother...that touches me, and I'm sure it touches most Afrikans globally, is the song that comes from the words of His Imperial Majesty, speaking to the United Nations War, right? Touches me, man, touches us.
Bob That the truth, you know? You see, what His Majesty say is the truth...now when we listen, when His Majesty say that, we look out 'pon the earth, and we know dat, when alla these people who say dem is leaders, for people 'pon the earth, agree to what His Majesty say, then 'til today, you have no more war, and no more problem. Because, what HIM say is true. Until the philosophy that hold one people higher than the other one is no more, then if it continue, ya gwanna have war! When it done, problem over, seen?
Mumia Until Rhodesia is free, South Afrika is free, Philadelphia is free, you know what I mean...Kingston is free...Wherever we are, that's the message...
Bob That's it! Because Christ government shall rule the earth, ya know? And Christ is Rastafari! Over a period of time, people think, and hafta get over thinking that Christ was White. But Christ a Black mon! Just like the Bible tell ya, say Christ Black, Solomon, say him Black, Moses, tell ya, say him Black, Jerimiah, say him Black, Haile Selassie Black. So Christ no white. Christ Black, you know? So that's how our people get tricked, dem show us a White Christ, people say, what we wanna deal with the Bible for, me know Christ no White. But the Bible say, Christ Black. If the Afrikan think Christ White, that's dangerous. It's a waste of time. Everytime you know we say "Rastafari Our God," you move one cornerstone outa Rome, and Rome must cripple. Really! Because Rome is the enemy, you know? Rome is the enemy of the people. Dem is the Anti-Christ, and dem walk around and tell people dem a deal with Christ. But naturally, dem is Anti-Christ, for Christ is Haile Selassie -- and just like how I know, the Pope coulda know too! Cause plenty people know. What, I'm a gonna hide it? The Pope know, everyone know, all dem people know, say Haile Selassie I God, you know? But dem hide it cause, dem die, and next guy come take dem space, and the people suffer the same, you know, so it's the people really have to make the decision and don't care for who dem say is the leader to make it God. Leader nobody. No leader not there, you know?
Mumia This city, Philadelphia, has the highest Black unemployment rate than anywhere in America...Now this is the same city that the Pope came to a couple of days ago. You were talking about the anti-Christ, right? Doing his work, right?
Bob Yeah. You see, I don't like the Pope, I don't like none of them? Seen? That is the truth. Because, him gwan come tru here, really, and tell ya: "Yes, live in peace. Live in this, live in that." Live in that under him society! You know? You must agree to live in peace as long as Pope there. No. No Pope. No Pope, and we live in peace! You see, if there were no Pope, we'd a live in peace. Because him come wit the anti-Christ ting, and tell the people dem all kinds of foolishness, seen? But me really deal wit' them. Pope Paul bless Mussolini for attack Ethiopia. Ethiopia carries the oldest history of Christianity. So wha' Rome jus' come the odder day, Rome is nothin'. You know? Rome is nothin! That's why we a say, you know, when the Pope dead...the best ting that ever happen to we is two Pople dead the other day. (laughter) True, true. That's one of the sweetest ting ever happen, you know. Rastaman in Jamaica pray every for more Pope dead, you know. Yeah! Dem is a people who PRAY for the Pope them dead. So you see one time one pope get a heart attack, you can just imagine the joy in Jamaica. So we get a likke joy down here. We happy! But this one, you know, is a dangerous one. You know? Because him a fool a lot of people. Dangerous.
Mumia What's your hope, brother, for the future of Black people in America, and Black people in the world.
Bob Way I see, you seen, it looks simple but it's true. RASTA FOR THE PEOPLE! Rastafari! For the people, seen? Capitalism and communism are finished. It Rasta now! The Blackman way of life. That's what we a say now dread. We a say: give the Black man fe him way of life now. Mek him show you how government run and how people care for people. Who you think have the Love. Who sing the tune inna the church. Black people a sing them, you know. Whose the spiritual people pon earth. The Black people. Dem a deal wit God. And God no let dem down. God always dere. And God say dem fe unite! Because when you unite, that is the power of God, you know. God love Love, which is unity. So when you unite, you get the whole power of God. That's what him want. Until Black people unite...if the Black people don't unite, the world, no one, no one can live good.
Cause the white man not living good, you know. The China man naa live good, either. Why? Because the Blackman is not united. Because the Blackman, him are the cornerstone pon earth! When time him shaky, the whole earth shaky. You see? When him solid, everything solid. And it a long while since we have been solid. You know. It's been a long long time. So you find out how much war, fight and dem tings, go on. You know where dem fight? In Africa! Our motherland. So anybody can see that war will start over here in America, man. REAL war. European pass over here and boom dis raas claat. True true. You mus' remember, dem have all of dem atomic business. So, you know. We not afraid for it, but Africa is the best. Africa for Africans, at home and abroad. African can be developed man. Africa have sea, river, everything. And clean. You have more land, more everything. You have good good everything. The best climate. The best land. You have the best everything! That's why today, His Majesty God more than yesterday, you know. Because we see that His Majesty never sell out to Russia, nor sell out to America. HIM uphold Black dignity, seen? So tell dem you can proudly say RASTAFARI, and naaw deal wit no traitor. That the sweet part 'bout it.
